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RE: football
Potato > 25/02/2014, 17:35
(25/02/2014, 11:43)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(18/02/2014, 01:17)Potato Wrote:
(13/02/2014, 14:42)Bickers32 Wrote: you obviously havent done your homework Sir Alex ,Sir Matt Busby both UTD Legands Both struggled at the start thats why we say give him time utd is a massive job oh on your point about champs to 7th i say sir alex was the differance he for the last few seasons got the best out of average players in the main moyes has a major rebuild on his hands
Erm, first of all, Sir Matt didn't struggle at the start at all. He took over just after the end of WW2 and finished 2nd for 4 years in a row winning the FA Cup in one of those years and then won the league in 1952 - our most successful years since our most recent trophy in 1911.
Secondly, comparing Moyes' start to SAF's is futile. Sir Alex arrived after big success in Scotland, conquering the dominance of Rangers & Celtic and beating Real Madrid in a European final. He then inherited a below average United side who were second from bottom in the table at the time and got us up to 11th. In '88 we finished 2nd. The next few seasons were no where near as good but Fergies previous success gave the board very good reason to trust him to make it right and the rest is history.
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Horse shit
Fergie failed to update a squad that was a mix of fading legends, squad players that would not get into any of the top sides in Europe (or the sides in the top half of the PL), and young players that might one day be good enough.
The fading legends cannot hack it anymore, you dont win anything with kids, and you cannot expect to win the PL with only 3 or 4 top draw players. UTD simply dont have the quality to stay with the top clubs anymore.
Fading Legends.
Ferdinand. (Legend, but finished)
Vidic. (Legend, but finished)
Evra. (60% of the player he once was)
Carrick. (60% of the player he once was)
Giggs. (Best player on the field whenever he played last season, but finished)
Scholes. (Finally gone at last)
Fletcher. (Might one day be influential again if he can stay healthy)
Valencia. (50% of the player he was since his injury)
Sub Standard Squad Players.
Young.
Nani.
Rafael.
Anderson.
Kagawa.
Evans.
Might Improve Given Time. But might not.
Cleverley.
Fellaini.
Januzaj.
Jones.
Smalling.
Hernandez.
Welbeck.
Top Draw World Class Players, Good Enough for any Team in Europe.
Van Persie.
Rooney.
Mata.
De Gea.
So there you have it. Fergie managed to drag another season out of the legends, but they dont have anything else to give. Moyes has to look to the future. 3 or 4 genuinely top class players is not good enough. Giggs might have been tearing them apart since 91, but that just does not cut it anymore.
City and Chelsea have a squad of top class internationals, Arsenal and Liverpool have decent squads with talented managers. The Utd squad is on a par with it's position in the PL.
I personally would have given the job to Mourinho. He absolutely lusted after the position and he would have brought the necessary gravitas. However we are where we are and Moyes will be given time and funds. He will get it right, I see another Jock led dynasty forming over the next 2 seasons.
I don't see what any of that has to do with my post. -
RE: football
Hilary Briss > 25/02/2014, 17:50
(25/02/2014, 17:35)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 11:43)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(18/02/2014, 01:17)Potato Wrote:
(13/02/2014, 14:42)Bickers32 Wrote: you obviously havent done your homework Sir Alex ,Sir Matt Busby both UTD Legands Both struggled at the start thats why we say give him time utd is a massive job oh on your point about champs to 7th i say sir alex was the differance he for the last few seasons got the best out of average players in the main moyes has a major rebuild on his hands
Erm, first of all, Sir Matt didn't struggle at the start at all. He took over just after the end of WW2 and finished 2nd for 4 years in a row winning the FA Cup in one of those years and then won the league in 1952 - our most successful years since our most recent trophy in 1911.
Secondly, comparing Moyes' start to SAF's is futile. Sir Alex arrived after big success in Scotland, conquering the dominance of Rangers & Celtic and beating Real Madrid in a European final. He then inherited a below average United side who were second from bottom in the table at the time and got us up to 11th. In '88 we finished 2nd. The next few seasons were no where near as good but Fergies previous success gave the board very good reason to trust him to make it right and the rest is history.
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Horse shit
Fergie failed to update a squad that was a mix of fading legends, squad players that would not get into any of the top sides in Europe (or the sides in the top half of the PL), and young players that might one day be good enough.
The fading legends cannot hack it anymore, you dont win anything with kids, and you cannot expect to win the PL with only 3 or 4 top draw players. UTD simply dont have the quality to stay with the top clubs anymore.
Fading Legends.
Ferdinand. (Legend, but finished)
Vidic. (Legend, but finished)
Evra. (60% of the player he once was)
Carrick. (60% of the player he once was)
Giggs. (Best player on the field whenever he played last season, but finished)
Scholes. (Finally gone at last)
Fletcher. (Might one day be influential again if he can stay healthy)
Valencia. (50% of the player he was since his injury)
Sub Standard Squad Players.
Young.
Nani.
Rafael.
Anderson.
Kagawa.
Evans.
Might Improve Given Time. But might not.
Cleverley.
Fellaini.
Januzaj.
Jones.
Smalling.
Hernandez.
Welbeck.
Top Draw World Class Players, Good Enough for any Team in Europe.
Van Persie.
Rooney.
Mata.
De Gea.
So there you have it. Fergie managed to drag another season out of the legends, but they dont have anything else to give. Moyes has to look to the future. 3 or 4 genuinely top class players is not good enough. Giggs might have been tearing them apart since 91, but that just does not cut it anymore.
City and Chelsea have a squad of top class internationals, Arsenal and Liverpool have decent squads with talented managers. The Utd squad is on a par with it's position in the PL.
I personally would have given the job to Mourinho. He absolutely lusted after the position and he would have brought the necessary gravitas. However we are where we are and Moyes will be given time and funds. He will get it right, I see another Jock led dynasty forming over the next 2 seasons.
I don't see what any of that has to do with my post.
Really ?
What about this bit ?
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Do you get it yet ? -
RE: football
Potato > 25/02/2014, 18:40
(25/02/2014, 17:50)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 17:35)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 11:43)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(18/02/2014, 01:17)Potato Wrote:
(13/02/2014, 14:42)Bickers32 Wrote: you obviously havent done your homework Sir Alex ,Sir Matt Busby both UTD Legands Both struggled at the start thats why we say give him time utd is a massive job oh on your point about champs to 7th i say sir alex was the differance he for the last few seasons got the best out of average players in the main moyes has a major rebuild on his hands
Erm, first of all, Sir Matt didn't struggle at the start at all. He took over just after the end of WW2 and finished 2nd for 4 years in a row winning the FA Cup in one of those years and then won the league in 1952 - our most successful years since our most recent trophy in 1911.
Secondly, comparing Moyes' start to SAF's is futile. Sir Alex arrived after big success in Scotland, conquering the dominance of Rangers & Celtic and beating Real Madrid in a European final. He then inherited a below average United side who were second from bottom in the table at the time and got us up to 11th. In '88 we finished 2nd. The next few seasons were no where near as good but Fergies previous success gave the board very good reason to trust him to make it right and the rest is history.
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Horse shit
Fergie failed to update a squad that was a mix of fading legends, squad players that would not get into any of the top sides in Europe (or the sides in the top half of the PL), and young players that might one day be good enough.
The fading legends cannot hack it anymore, you dont win anything with kids, and you cannot expect to win the PL with only 3 or 4 top draw players. UTD simply dont have the quality to stay with the top clubs anymore.
Fading Legends.
Ferdinand. (Legend, but finished)
Vidic. (Legend, but finished)
Evra. (60% of the player he once was)
Carrick. (60% of the player he once was)
Giggs. (Best player on the field whenever he played last season, but finished)
Scholes. (Finally gone at last)
Fletcher. (Might one day be influential again if he can stay healthy)
Valencia. (50% of the player he was since his injury)
Sub Standard Squad Players.
Young.
Nani.
Rafael.
Anderson.
Kagawa.
Evans.
Might Improve Given Time. But might not.
Cleverley.
Fellaini.
Januzaj.
Jones.
Smalling.
Hernandez.
Welbeck.
Top Draw World Class Players, Good Enough for any Team in Europe.
Van Persie.
Rooney.
Mata.
De Gea.
So there you have it. Fergie managed to drag another season out of the legends, but they dont have anything else to give. Moyes has to look to the future. 3 or 4 genuinely top class players is not good enough. Giggs might have been tearing them apart since 91, but that just does not cut it anymore.
City and Chelsea have a squad of top class internationals, Arsenal and Liverpool have decent squads with talented managers. The Utd squad is on a par with it's position in the PL.
I personally would have given the job to Mourinho. He absolutely lusted after the position and he would have brought the necessary gravitas. However we are where we are and Moyes will be given time and funds. He will get it right, I see another Jock led dynasty forming over the next 2 seasons.
I don't see what any of that has to do with my post.
Really ?
What about this bit ?
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Do you get it yet ?
What exactly is wrong with what I said there? Moyes did inherit the Champions. Moyes has brought us from Champions to 7th (now joint 6th). Moyes does have us in relegation form in 2014. Moyes has given the board no reason to back him in the same way we backed Fergie (which is what my post was responding to). We are doing worse than his Everton side of last season and the three situations are completely incomparable. -
RE: football
Hilary Briss > 25/02/2014, 18:54
(25/02/2014, 18:40)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 17:50)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 17:35)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 11:43)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(18/02/2014, 01:17)Potato Wrote: Erm, first of all, Sir Matt didn't struggle at the start at all. He took over just after the end of WW2 and finished 2nd for 4 years in a row winning the FA Cup in one of those years and then won the league in 1952 - our most successful years since our most recent trophy in 1911.
Secondly, comparing Moyes' start to SAF's is futile. Sir Alex arrived after big success in Scotland, conquering the dominance of Rangers & Celtic and beating Real Madrid in a European final. He then inherited a below average United side who were second from bottom in the table at the time and got us up to 11th. In '88 we finished 2nd. The next few seasons were no where near as good but Fergies previous success gave the board very good reason to trust him to make it right and the rest is history.
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Horse shit
Fergie failed to update a squad that was a mix of fading legends, squad players that would not get into any of the top sides in Europe (or the sides in the top half of the PL), and young players that might one day be good enough.
The fading legends cannot hack it anymore, you dont win anything with kids, and you cannot expect to win the PL with only 3 or 4 top draw players. UTD simply dont have the quality to stay with the top clubs anymore.
Fading Legends.
Ferdinand. (Legend, but finished)
Vidic. (Legend, but finished)
Evra. (60% of the player he once was)
Carrick. (60% of the player he once was)
Giggs. (Best player on the field whenever he played last season, but finished)
Scholes. (Finally gone at last)
Fletcher. (Might one day be influential again if he can stay healthy)
Valencia. (50% of the player he was since his injury)
Sub Standard Squad Players.
Young.
Nani.
Rafael.
Anderson.
Kagawa.
Evans.
Might Improve Given Time. But might not.
Cleverley.
Fellaini.
Januzaj.
Jones.
Smalling.
Hernandez.
Welbeck.
Top Draw World Class Players, Good Enough for any Team in Europe.
Van Persie.
Rooney.
Mata.
De Gea.
So there you have it. Fergie managed to drag another season out of the legends, but they dont have anything else to give. Moyes has to look to the future. 3 or 4 genuinely top class players is not good enough. Giggs might have been tearing them apart since 91, but that just does not cut it anymore.
City and Chelsea have a squad of top class internationals, Arsenal and Liverpool have decent squads with talented managers. The Utd squad is on a par with it's position in the PL.
I personally would have given the job to Mourinho. He absolutely lusted after the position and he would have brought the necessary gravitas. However we are where we are and Moyes will be given time and funds. He will get it right, I see another Jock led dynasty forming over the next 2 seasons.
I don't see what any of that has to do with my post.
Really ?
What about this bit ?
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Do you get it yet ?
What exactly is wrong with what I said there? Moyes did inherit the Champions. Moyes has brought us from Champions to 7th (now joint 6th). Moyes does have us in relegation form in 2014. Moyes has given the board no reason to back him in the same way we backed Fergie (which is what my post was responding to). We are doing worse than his Everton side of last season and the three situations are completely incomparable.
Yes Moyes did inherit the Champions, that is factually correct. However your point is very simplistic and fails to recognise the fact that the squad is exceptionally weak when the older players can no longer deliver.
So your point that this is somehow the work of Moyes is really rather silly. -
RE: football
Potato > 25/02/2014, 19:19
(25/02/2014, 18:54)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 18:40)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 17:50)Hilary Briss Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 17:35)Potato Wrote:
(25/02/2014, 11:43)Hilary Briss Wrote: Horse shit
Fergie failed to update a squad that was a mix of fading legends, squad players that would not get into any of the top sides in Europe (or the sides in the top half of the PL), and young players that might one day be good enough.
The fading legends cannot hack it anymore, you dont win anything with kids, and you cannot expect to win the PL with only 3 or 4 top draw players. UTD simply dont have the quality to stay with the top clubs anymore.
Fading Legends.
Ferdinand. (Legend, but finished)
Vidic. (Legend, but finished)
Evra. (60% of the player he once was)
Carrick. (60% of the player he once was)
Giggs. (Best player on the field whenever he played last season, but finished)
Scholes. (Finally gone at last)
Fletcher. (Might one day be influential again if he can stay healthy)
Valencia. (50% of the player he was since his injury)
Sub Standard Squad Players.
Young.
Nani.
Rafael.
Anderson.
Kagawa.
Evans.
Might Improve Given Time. But might not.
Cleverley.
Fellaini.
Januzaj.
Jones.
Smalling.
Hernandez.
Welbeck.
Top Draw World Class Players, Good Enough for any Team in Europe.
Van Persie.
Rooney.
Mata.
De Gea.
So there you have it. Fergie managed to drag another season out of the legends, but they dont have anything else to give. Moyes has to look to the future. 3 or 4 genuinely top class players is not good enough. Giggs might have been tearing them apart since 91, but that just does not cut it anymore.
City and Chelsea have a squad of top class internationals, Arsenal and Liverpool have decent squads with talented managers. The Utd squad is on a par with it's position in the PL.
I personally would have given the job to Mourinho. He absolutely lusted after the position and he would have brought the necessary gravitas. However we are where we are and Moyes will be given time and funds. He will get it right, I see another Jock led dynasty forming over the next 2 seasons.
I don't see what any of that has to do with my post.
Really ?
What about this bit ?
Moyes, on the other hand, inherited the Champions of England and brought us down to 7th at the time of writing and has us in relegation form so far in 2014. He has given the board no reason whatsoever to believe he is the right man for the job and instead of getting us up from poor positions in the table like Fergie he has brought us down from fantastic positions breaking negative records in the process. We are also doing worse than his Everton side of last season. The three situations are completely incomparable.
Do you get it yet ?
What exactly is wrong with what I said there? Moyes did inherit the Champions. Moyes has brought us from Champions to 7th (now joint 6th). Moyes does have us in relegation form in 2014. Moyes has given the board no reason to back him in the same way we backed Fergie (which is what my post was responding to). We are doing worse than his Everton side of last season and the three situations are completely incomparable.
Yes Moyes did inherit the Champions, that is factually correct. However your point is very simplistic and fails to recognise the fact that the squad is exceptionally weak when the older players can no longer deliver.
So your point that this is somehow the work of Moyes is really rather silly.
It may no longer be a championship winning squad but it is most certainly not a 7th place squad. My whole post was in comparison to SAF & SMB's starts as I was replying to Bickers' high & mighty, factually incorrect post. Sir Alex inherited a below average team who were second from bottom and brought them up to 11th. Moyes has inherited the Champions and no matter how poor you think the squad is, going down to seventh place in six months is a disaster.
I don't care if two CB's are past it as we have fantastic replacements for them already, we are just missing one new experienced CB. He has no excuse with the midfield because he's had two windows to bring in a few CM's and he only managed Fellaini and that was for a ridiculous price. Up front we are fine.
He has no excuse. 4th is acceptable for a transition season from the Champions, 7th is not. And again, if the football was good I wouldn't be wanting him out. Saturday was an improvement, we played much better and he actually tried to change things tactically. All i've ever asked from Moyes is signs of improvement, something to show that he does know what he's doing. Hopefully he can build from the Palace game.